Honor’s Reward

Ok John Bevere just preached at our church this past Sunday. I really got corrected. He talked about honoring those who are in positions of authority. He talked about four different areas; civil, family, social and church authorities. Now I have known about respecting and honoring authority for a long time. I learned that very early in my Christian walk. Troy and I have not only followed that but we have taught it to our children (and are still teaching it to them-ha ha) but I found a problem with how my life lined up with what John was talking about. I love to honor those who are in positions of authority but I have had a hard time at times letting people honor me in the position God has placed me in. Do you see the conundrum going on inside of my head? I mean we learned the importance of honor and respecting those in authority over us and I firmly believe that because of the way Troy and I have honored our leaders God has allowed us be in a position of authority.

So why is it at times hard for me to allow people to show honor to me? I think it is because I have seen people in positions of authority who demanded honor and I never wanted to be counted among them. I so much did not want to look like them that I let myself swing the other direction sometimes. I just think there is a balance that needs to be struck. I have seen some people take the word honor and abuse it. I mean I don’t need someone to follow me around and dab my forehead when I sweat and honestly it disturbs me when I see that sort of thing but I do need help sometimes and have been resistant to it.

John told a story about when he was in a foreign country and how they wanted to wash his hands in an elaborate manor and sit him on a huge chair to honor him. He said he felt the Lord tell him to roll with it. I think it would have made me very uncomfortable but in that culture it was their way of honoring a minister. I thought to myself at that moment I probably would have wanted to wash their hands and not let them wash mine. It would have taken away their joy and also their reward (as John talked about) by me being stubborn. To show honor and respect to someone who is in a position of authority is a great thing! I cannot tell you how much more I respect policemen and firefighters too! And don’t think I will ever complain about CMS again!

So guys, I am working on this. Just letting you know!

What did you learn from John’s message? I shared what got me good, what got you?


~ by pennymaxwell on September 23, 2008.

4 Responses to “Honor’s Reward”

  1. Honouring leaders. Seeking favour.
    That is a very dangerous message as it positions leadership to be idolized and any critique of them to be resisted.
    It shuts down “watchmen at the gates” whose role is to warn of false doctrine and false spiritual ministry.
    These days the watchmen are often being dismissed as “heresy hunters”, having “critical spirit”, “being divisive”, “being negative”, etc.
    When the watchmen are shut down, then the church is pillaged by “savage wolves” (Acts 20:29-30).

    In “end times” the devil might have a major attempt to shut down the “watchmen”, so that false teaching can easily be spread everywhere.

    The watchmen must ALWAYS be independent of leaders to avoid conflict of interest.
    We should all be watchmen, as situations require.
    We should be watchmen for our families, friends, fellowships, communities, etc.

    In New Zealand we have a system of “Neighbourhood Watch” where everyone is vigilant for suspicious activities in the neighbourhood (eg. burglars). This is considered positive, rather than critical, divisive, or negative.
    It is only negative from the criminal’s point of view.
    In the church, discernment and judgement are only negative from the false prophet/false apostle/false teacher point of view.

    Ezekiel 3:17-18 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. When I say to a wicked man, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.

    I have seen a lot of this “attracting God’s favor” rhetoric coming through in recent times. It seems to be an enticement to puff oneself up with grandeur by using special techniques to supposedly have greater importance than others in God’s eyes.
    It is also a cunning ploy to promote prosperity gospel, where those “fleecing the flock” can live as millionaires (eg. Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer) supposedly because they have learned the secret of “Gods favour”.
    It has the signature of Lucifer all over it.
    He imagined favor and equality with God, then was kicked out of heaven.

    “Favor” teachings are usually promoted by leaders with ambitions, which is a suspect motive.

    Jesus Christ is personally responsible for building his church, and he doesn’t need men running ahead with their own kingdoms of presumption.

    Matthew 16:18 …I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
    2 John 1:9 Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

    If leaders run ahead, all their efforts might go towards the kingdom of the antichrist.

    We should always submit to the Bible BEFORE we submit to men in ANY capacity.
    That is a characteristic of an authentic Christian.
    If anyone believes in submitting to leaders first, then they should join the Roman Catholic church and submit to the Pope.
    He claims to be the SUPREME Apostolic leader of the true Christian church on earth (an antichrist claim, in my opinion).
    (The papacy asserts that anyone not submitting to the pope is heretic/backslidden/unreconciled.)

    The only apostolic thing we should submit to is the counsel of the Apostles written in the Bible.
    When modern day “Apostles” try to get people to submit to them, they are just “adding to scripture” and attracting attention that belongs with God. They are warned:

    Prov 30:5-6 “Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not ADD TO his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
    Rev 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone ADDS ANYTHING TO them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone TAKES WORDS AWAY from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

    >> John Bevere: told a story about when he was in a foreign country and how they wanted to wash his hands in an elaborate manor and sit him on a huge chair to honor him. He said he felt the Lord tell him to roll with it.

    God wouldn’t tell him that, as he has already warned AGAINST IT in the Bible:
    Exodus 20:3 You shall have no other gods before me.
    Exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God…..

    That counsel includes not allowing YOURSELF to be worshipped. Encouraging “favouring” and “honouring” could become a trap to put you offside with God. The Bible recommends humility.

    Acts 14:13-15 The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.
    But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: “Men, why are you doing this? We too are only men, human like you…….

    John Bevere should have firmly resisted the “favorers” by explaining he submits to God FIRST before he submits to any traditions or agendas of men. That is the correct witness of an authentic Christian who has truly made Jesus Lord.

    >> Penny: It would have taken away their joy and also their reward (as John talked about) by me being stubborn.
    Not stubborn, rather obedient to an inner WARNING to resist innapropriate attention.
    John Bevere is giving false counsel and leading people astray on these topics.

    He appears to be indirectly promoting pride, idolatry, and shutting down the “watchmen”.

    See http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith.html#jbevere


    John has a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stt4RFG3t1s called “Imposters in the Church” which he asserts is false Christians not properly converted.
    “Imposters in the church” should rather address all the false apostles, prophets, teachers, and ministries, such as Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, Charismatic Kundalini spirit, Toronto Blessing, etc.
    They are the dangerous imposters and “savage wolves”, not backslidden “Joe Christian”.

  2. Bill, you crack me up! Why is it you are always trying to kick up some dust? I am not sure if you go to church anywhere but you must give your pastor a fit all of the time! I will have to pray for him! 🙂

    Anyway, you were not at church on Sunday to know what John was talking about. He talked about honoring leaders not worshiping them. There is a huge difference!!! I want for my kids to grow up honoring those in authority, including my husband and I as their parents but I do not want them to worship anyone but Jesus.

    I have been stubborn because of people whom you are referring to going over board with things. I have not let people help me when I really needed help because I didn’t want to put anyone out. Frankly, I need the help sometimes but refused it. It was a false sense of humility and rather arrogant of me to refuse help so I could not look like the imposers. See anyone who knows me knows this chick is the real deal. So why am I gonna live my life not trying to be like someone when I can just be who God made me to be and that is good enough.

    Bill do you want your children to honor you? Do you want them to honor the civil authorities? Their teachers and coaches? Honor deals with respect, not worship.

    I know you got burned from people who called themselves Christians but there really are genuine people out there, Bill. Don’t give up on the real ones and don’t let your heart get bitter. Poison is not good for anyone.

    I am going to pray for you, your wife and your children. I am so sorry you got hurt. It makes me sad cause I hear your pain in your writings.

  3. I learned alot from sundays message and from saturdays meeting as well. I do think we have to always see authroity as God see’s it … no matter what. What was it John said … something about people being called to Godly positions of authority but aren’t nessesarily acting Godly? that explained a lot to me. God’s call on a person’s life isn’t going to change because they aren’t acting Godly. They will be held accountable for that calling and how they used it. We all will be held accountable for our callings and how we used it. I wonder sometimes why we get so caught up in othere people’s stuff and don’t concern ourselves and go after our own callings with a passion? hmmm I sure am glad I am passionately pursuing what the Lord wants me to do … and treating others how God wants me to treat them …in love ..always .. no matter what … honoring those He has demanded I honor. 🙂 no matter what 🙂

  4. Yeah!!! Bring back the honor to our society, our churches, and our homes. As a child I was taught to respect (honor) adults, to use my manners; yes sir, no sir, etc…I raised my son the same and I was always so pleased when people would comment on his good manners. What is wrong with any of this? In general we have moved away from this–it takes time to show respect in our conversations and in our behavior–we rush through life trying to short cut everything even our verbal encounters. While we talked about loving nicknames for children and that is appropriate in its place, those whom God has placed in authority over us deserve to be recognized as just that–the authority, the position. I call my Pastors-“Pastor”, because that is what God intends them to be in my life. I respect and honor my Lord because he gave unto me PASTORS and I respect and honor them because they are a gift from God to my life. My worship is to God, but how can I truely worship God without demonstrating respect, honor and service to the ones He gave me as shepherds? Pastors carry the vision and assignment of the local church, belivers are planted as God chooses in different churches as gifts and talents line up with the vision/plan. What comes with carrying the vision is sometimes carrying burdens as well–being a pastor is not easy, thus God sends those with hearts to serve-to hold up their arms in the battle, to help free and strengthen them to do God’s mighty work. I’m not a pastor, but I so thank God for my Pastors and I am here to honor, respect, to serve. This is my honor and service unto God. If believers understood true covering, they would want to do anything to serve their Pastors/Shepherds so those men and women could be free to truely Pastor-to keep prayer over us, to teach us, lead us and carry out God’s bigger plan. If the pastor is just our buddy, can we allow the messsage God sends through them to change our life? Is that not what we want, change? We need to all get over ourselves and demonstrate true respect and honor to whom it is due–all aughority does come from God. I want the covering of my Pastors–I know what the other side of that is like–don’t want to be “floundering” out in this world on my own. Thank God for Pastor Troy and Pastor Penny-God positioned them as Pastors and planted me here under their leadership–I call them “PASTOR” and I believe this pleases God.

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